DataChat Live! Episode 2

July 29, 2021

Episode 2: Privacy, Server-side, and Industry Updates

Join us for a discussion on some of the industry hot topics including:

  • The pros and cons of going server-side
  • Privacy regulation updates and what they mean
  • The state of third-party cookies
  • And more

Follow this podcast on Spotify.

Chris Baird: (00:11)
Okay. We're back. It's been a few weeks, but we made it back. This is our second episode of DataChat Live! Where data lovers talk governance, validation, decision-making and more. Yeah, this has been a busy couple of weeks for us. Summer's been nice. Mike, welcome to the podcast. This is your first episode. How do you feel?

Mike Maziarz: (00:33)
It's an absolute pleasure to be here. I've been traveling around like a vagabond with a newborns, so...

Chris Baird: (00:40)
Oh, congratulations! Is this number three? Sounds like it's your last?

Mike Maziarz: (00:43)
Number three, it sounds like at this point I'm thinking last. I had a moment where I was thinking let's have more, but it's day to day.

Chris Baird: (00:51)
Okay. Day-to-day. Cameron. Welcome back. Thanks. Man, what's been new with you?

Cameron Cowan: (00:57)
Not a lot. I mean, I'm looking out the window right now and we've been a little rough here in Utah, lately. I think I heard two days ago we had the worst air quality in the world.

Chris Baird: (01:05)
Yes. This is actually a theme of our podcast. We're launching a campaign, not to move to Utah because there's too many people, too much pollution.

Cameron Cowan: (01:12)
Yeah. I've been hearing a lot of stuff about fires, but in general it's yeah, it's been a variable thing as it goes up and down. It's like one day it's gorgeous. The next days it looks like this. I can't even see across the valley. Yeah.

Chris Baird: (01:23)
But you were in Yellowstone recently, right? On a vacation, or where'd you go?

Cameron Cowan: (01:26)
Up in Idaho.

Chris Baird: (01:29)
Idaho. Cool. Very cool. And for those of you that don't know we're in Salt Lake, just south of Salt Lake City, Utah. Most of us are, actually all three of us are from Oregon. We're transplanted here to Utah. So it's brought us here and locked us in. At least temporarily. Well, we're excited, we have a couple of great topics to discuss today. We met yesterday, or two days ago and talked through this agenda, so we have a couple really good topics. We do a few housekeeping items. First we want to actually ask all of you who are live watching this because those that are watching it on demand later, won't be able to respond to this poll, but please drop in the comments whether you prefer to watch this on demand at a faster speed. I know we all listen to our podcasts at 1.5x - 2x, or if you prefer to have the engagement interaction going back and forth and watching it live. So I think we're going to drop a poll in right now. And we'd like to see where all of you feel.

Cameron Cowan: (02:30)
Isn't that selection bias? Because the people that are watching live like to watch it live?

Chris Baird: (02:33)
Potentially, but maybe if we just sent out, I think next time we're sending out an on-demand link and we're just going to test that out. We're going to prerecord, send it out,

Cameron Cowan: (02:40)
Send them a survey as well.

Chris Baird: (02:41)
Yeah. We'll send them something. So we will, we will compile the data to make sure there's no bias there. Okay. So also this will be available on Spotify Stitcher, wherever you watch your listen to your podcasts, also YouTube and Vimeo. So we'll be sure to share all those links out when they're ready. Just a quick update we have, for those of you, all of us work at ObservePoint usually we'll have in the future we're planning, we actually made a big list of 200 different influencers we'd like to have on this podcast. So in the future, we're going to have guests and we're trying to shoot for even potentially weekly or every other week to have this podcast recorded. Kind of just depends on our schedules and what we have.

Chris Baird: (03:25)
But a couple of quick updates and announcements. We have a networking event city tour that we're doing for ObservePoint customers, anyone that's interested in data governance and analytics. Actually, and we'll share that in the comments, but basically we're going to be in New York, September 7th, Seattle, September 14th, Houston, September 16th, Chicago, September 21st Atlanta on the 28th San Francisco on the 28th new and then back in New York on the 30th, and then wrapping up our city tour on the 30th. And we're doing a Baseball and Brews theme. So we're taking people to baseball games and we're gonna have a, what sounds like a brewery tour in each city. So really cool. For those of you that are interested, please sign up for that for more information. We'd love to have you come out and visit. But I think the goal there is to keep it no more between 50 and a hundred people and just keep it light and keep it fun.

Cameron Cowan: (04:21)
Is there one of those teams that you're following specifically?

Chris Baird: (04:24)
I grew up in Oregon so I grew up an A's fan, but honestly I just love baseball players now. So no, I'm just a fan of the game. Mike, preferred team?

Mike Maziarz: (04:35)
My heart goes to the Mariners, as I'm from the Northwest, but that just leads to a broken heart. So, you know, sometimes it's Dodgers one year, it's just whoever's around me. I help support their team.

Chris Baird: (04:48)
Team player. Next, just so everyone knows that our next DataChat will be in August and we're focusing the theme of that is going to be on how the pandemic has changed online behavior and digital experience. So we've been starting to compile trends and data and different reports externally. And we're going to be talking about all the different things that are here to stay. The trends that weren't trends, that are now behavioral patterns that we've identified in the space. So we're going to be talking about those and sharing those. So be sure to tune in next time.

Cameron Cowan: (05:17)
Is there going to be a counter on how many times we use the term "new normal' or 'unprecedented'?

Chris Baird: (05:20)
No, we're not using those anymore, we've moved passed those. But yeah. And then also one last reminder for our friends over the DAA, the Quantities the nominations have closed for that, but the voting begins I believe sometime early August. So we'll share out that link as well.

Let's jump in. So our first topic today is just addressing the pros and cons and some of the challenges with going server-side. I know this has been a very popular debate. We hear about it a lot. Let's kind of kick that off camera. What are your initial thoughts? I mean, you're on the front lines and doing a lot of research on this, but also talking with customers and anyone that's, you know, having this question, what are you hearing?

Cameron Cowan: (06:05)
I think a lot of it is a lot of buzz, not a lot of movement. You'll hear a lot of people talking about it. But as far as the number of big brands and customers that we've seen make the full jump, it's not nearly what we would expect. Even, I mean, this has been a discussion for a year or two. So the fact that we're still seeing a very, very small number of people jump on the bandwagon, I think is very telling. I don't think that it's people don't want to do it, I think it's kind of a wait and see approach. And there's a lot of reasons to go to server-side. I think we hear these all the time because the people that are producing the most content are the ones that are most self interested in doing this sharing platforms like Google and Adobe.

Cameron Cowan: (06:43)
And especially when you look at like page performance and SEO benefits, it's really obvious, "Oh yes, I want to do this. It's going to be good for my traffic, for my customer." I think what happens is because the people producing that content are so pro server-side, we start to not hear the reasons you shouldn't do it, or at least the reasons you should be cautious and plan this out. And there's a handful of those things. I think the biggest one that I hear is that it's just not ready yet. We have over a thousand tags in the ObservePoint tag database, and yet I could probably count on a couple of hands, the number of those tags that actually support a server-side deployment. So even if you got your analytics server-side 90% plus of all the other tags and technology you have on your website, wouldn't be able to support that in the first place.

Chris Baird: (07:29)

Cameron Cowan: (07:30)
There was a couple of other things I have listed here just real quick. The opacity is another thing that I think people worry about, especially as we move to a realm of privacy people want to be able to know what you're tracking, what technologies are on your site. And if everything goes server-side, if we get to that point, you can't see. There's no visibility there.

Chris Baird: (07:49)
Yeah. I know. It's something that we are always thinking about and trying to, obviously looking to be a part of that transition and change for those that want to participate, but it does seem use-case specific. Are you noticing actually within the industry, specific industries or segments of the market that are more prone and more likely to consider a server-side?

Cameron Cowan: (08:12)
No, I think it is definitely vertical specific. There there's some verticals that it just, the technology you need in order to deliver a great experience often are very reliant on current client-side implementation. Think about if you're a regional retailer and you only ship to certain areas or the shipping costs are different depending on where you're going. Well, now you need to be able to determine in real time what that geo is. So unless you have always authenticated fully known customers at all times, you need to be able to absorb those environmental signals from a browser. Similarly, if you're in travel and hospitality and you have variable rates, you need to be able to absorb those variable signals from the browser. Whereas others, maybe financial services or healthcare, maybe that's not as important. All the, even in healthcare, you think about all the different rules and privacy laws that are different across countries and even within states, there's still things you need to absorb. I think the geographic considerations of a browser are probably the most obvious to people, but there's a number of those other underlying browser information layers that people are still actively using today. That's not to say those verticals and those businesses can't get beyond the limitations. But as of right now, that's kind of the status quo for their industries.

Chris Baird: (09:22)
You know, you mentioned browsers, let's transition to our second topic because in this article, actually a blog post from Travis Cameron at Tealium, we'll share that as well ( They talked about Chrome's delay in killing cookies creates more harm than good, and they outlined some of the concerns there. And there were some interesting insights that you pulled from that article. And we did a little bit more research into just around browsers, but what are some things that stuck out to you that they highlighted?

Cameron Cowan: (09:51)
In that before getting into the browsers? The general theme, I think, is spot on. The idea that when you're given extra rope, that's just more rope to hang yourself with. I think that we were also very conscious and concerned about the Google timeline and Chrome deprecating support of third-party cookies, that there was a lot of activity and a lot of anxiety. And now we've all of a sudden it's been pushed out almost two years, that anxiety has gone away. The concern is that we're going to take our foot off the gas. It's not that we need to stop moving forward and figuring out solutions that get us there, it just means we have more time to do that. We were all already behind the ball. Google themselves, and I think part of the reason why they made this 'stay of execution,' they come out with FLoC and it wasn't getting industry buy-in, and it wasn't working the way they fully expected it to. And so they haven't completely scrapped it, but they've definitely gone back to the drawing board and they need that extra time.

Chris Baird: (10:43)
Just to get more traction.

Cameron Cowan: (10:45)
Yeah, or to get a better system in place that more people are willing to adopt across the board. But I think the underlying sentiment is you still have to cater toward the lowest common denominator. And in this case, that means that what is the most strict privacy guidelines and technology restrictions you have, and that most obviously is Apple and Safari with their ITP standards. But the other question, and this gets to your question about browsers is how does that impact you specifically as a business, not as the market, but as the business? In the article, they mentioned that Chrome is 50% of the browser market. That actually surprised me.

Chris Baird: (11:19)
I thought it was higher.

Well, when did we hit that tipping point? And I just pulled up the stats and yes, 48.5% in the US of all browser share is Chrome. So it means we're under 50% now. And I was thinking it was closer to 60, 70%. And if you look at worldwide, it's still is. Worldwide, we're at about 65%. And that's because we have so much Safari usage, especially on mobile devices in the United States. Even if you go from the US to all North America, we're now above 50%. And then when you go worldwide it's even more.

Chris Baird: (11:49)
With the examination of mobile trafficking worldwide, we anticipate the same type.

Cameron Cowan: (11:52)
And the interesting thing is if you look at the worldwide numbers just on mobile, you still see a massive amount of Chrome traffic. So worldwide, both on all devices, as well as mobile specific, you see a lot of Chrome. But in the United States specifically, and I don't know whether it's we just love our iPhones, but there's a ton of Safari usage. That's slanting that distribution.

Chris Baird: (12:12)
Interesting. Yeah. You've got to think with the acceleration of iPhone adoption worldwide, that will change. But in the meantime, yeah, you have a lot of Google Chrome users on mobile worldwide.

Cameron Cowan: (12:22)
One other thing that I did find interesting, and I wanted to pull up our own data. So for ObservePoint I wanted to say, is this really that big of a deal? Because while the US numbers are 48.5%, how does it impact our business? Let me actually pull these up in real time. Cause I was just looking at them. So our Chrome visitors for ObservePoint is that 82%. So, and I find this true, especially in the B2B landscape, a lot of B2B, their primary traffic is coming through Chrome.

Chris Baird: (12:48)
You're talking about for ObservePoint's domain?

Cameron Cowan: (12:48)
Our own domains are for our own website. And so it's not just what is the numbers for the geography that you're in, or the primary devices, but what is it for your business? Everybody's business looks different, a B2C company that has a lot of mobile traffic. A lot of app traffic could see a ton of Safari. And so that's a big concern to stay really strict on what is ITP doing and how am I adjusting for that? For us, we're looking at our Safari numbers are less than 5%. If I add Safari and Firefox, I'm still not over 13%. So it's not to say we want to ignore those, and that trend is definitely happening, but you should always use your own data to understand how you should be adjusting to these trends.

Chris Baird: (13:28)
Lastly, I think another point they call out we can talk about it a little bit more as the privacy piece. I think everyone's seen those, depending on what your viewing method is, those Apple privacy commercials. They're rededicating their brand to protecting consumer privacy. And we've seen that through their recent iOS, but anything that specific that was calling out to you in this article about privacy?

Cameron Cowan: (13:56)
I think that's the reason everyone is doing this. Google knows they need to be more privacy conscious, aware, compliant, whatever that means. They also know that they know where their bread is buttered. They know that they make the vast majority of all their revenue off of advertising dollars. And the vast majority of advertising takes place, measurement, retargeting, whatever a dimension of it takes place, via third-party cookies. So they couldn't just wipe the board clean, they would lose a massive chunk of their revenue stream. But when it comes to being privacy compliant, once again, Apple is the gold standard. And I think you saw Firefox quickly follow, Mozilla follow on to the standard as it was released. I think, you know that Google will follow that standard and we've even got a bunch of the other emerging browsers. We typically talk about the big three, but there's a lot of other emerging browsers that are taking share that are trying to figure out where they fit in that landscape as well.

Cameron Cowan: (14:49)
So I think it's something we need to be aware of. It's something that we in our technology are focused on helping our customers look at how much exposure do I have to privacy concerns. It's, jumping real quick back to the server-side discussion we had, it's one of the reasons why people are considering server-side is to have more control and security over what data is transferred in what ways. So it's going to be a pervasive topic throughout the market, and we just need to all make sure we understand where our businesses lie on that landscape.

Chris Baird: (15:17)
Very cool. Yeah. I really appreciate the article by Travis. He has a lot of good points check it out. It's a good read and it's just a good reminder just to not continue to evolve. I think we have to evolve our technology stacks, we have to evolve how we're collecting data, how we're interpreting it, and what we're doing to protect all of the privacy of all of our customers.

Cameron Cowan: (15:40)
Exactly right.

Chris Baird: (15:41)
Let's jump over to our next topic. So recently last month we completed, and I think we maybe mentioned this on the last DataChat, I can't remember. But we recently completed a joint study with DMPG and Similarweb where we took a deep dive into the dependency of third-party cookies worldwide. And we basically went through and audited 300, I think it's 300, largest websites and looked at the dependencies they had on third-party cookie data. And so we wanted to talk a little bit about that and yeah, Cameron, what were some of the things that stood out to you in that report?

Cameron Cowan: (16:24)
Yeah. This is directly on the heels of some of those Google decisions in Chrome that we were just talking about. How big is the exposure we have to third-party cookies, and we called that out very specifically. And every time I talk about this, I try to be clear on third-party cookies. The hyperbole of all cookies are going away immediately is, is just that hyperbole. And there's going to be certain cookies that are just naturally part of every website experience. They're functional. You need them for a site to work. Otherwise, you know, shopping carts and breakdown preferences would never be savable.

Chris Baird: (16:55)
The visual experience gets worse. And I should also clarify that when we started in scope, this report out, we did not yet know that Google had pushed back or would be pushing back. So we were making this a lot more urgent, but I think now that we have more time, it changes a little bit and it gives us more time. Yep. Sorry to interrupt. I just wanted to clarify that we started this report, but you know what, six months ago we started, I think this is research.

Cameron Cowan: (17:16)
Yep. That's exactly right. And the findings were still very interesting and should spur us to action. Just because, like I said, we have this longer time horizon doesn't mean we should stop our urgency to move toward better tracking. From the report itself, the findings were fairly interesting as far as just the exposure. So of those 300 different brands across three different markets, Australia, the UK and the United States, we found that 81.7% of all of those sites had at least some third-party cookie set. That wasn't to say their exposure was exactly the same. One site may have five, one site have a hundred. So we all need to, once again, judge our own exposure and our own stance on our business based on our data, not just on benchmarks.

The other thing that I thought was really interesting, well, notable was that obviously the UK was below Australia in the US just because of the stricter privacy laws there, you would expect to see less third-party data coming through. Especially since their default state is opted out of tracking and measurement. And we did see that number is significantly different than most of the other markets were up in the eighties. Whereas the UK was down in the sixties, but even the UK being over 50% in an opted out state was actually surprising to me. I was expecting it to be much, much lower. So even in the UK where there's been some massive fines handed down, there's still a lot of exposure.

Chris Baird: (18:34)
Interesting. Yeah. One of the things, one of the call-outs was to really renew the emphasis on first party data. What are your thoughts on that? Like how can all of us really put the focus there? You know that a lot of these third-party cookies were advertising cookies. How can we all put this emphasis on first party, as opposed to third?

Cameron Cowan: (18:55)
You're right that the vast majority of them are 84.9-85%. What surprised me was that the next biggest category in that measurement or in that study was measurement, was analytics and attribution. And so we still have a lot of technologies out there that are doing our measurement on our websites, that aren't in the first party context. So simply getting to that point, which I know back when I was with Adobe, that was a massive push a decade or more ago is getting everybody to first party. That's a big step everyone needs to look at. I think the other thing we want to be conscious of is there is first party cookie data, and that will be around for awhile, but there's also other first party data. And you're hearing a massive push in the market right now to go to more authenticated states.

Chris Baird: (19:42)
Very contextual targeting.

Cameron Cowan: (19:44)
You have contextual targeting, where it's almost going back to when I first started at Omniture back in 2005 Yahoo and Google and Microsoft advertising was all contextual. There was no re-targeting or re-marketing because we weren't at that level of sophistication yet. So it was, I know generally the people that go to this specific type of website are interested in this general type of thing, so let's target them in that. And you're going to see that, especially across the advertising system, when we think about which functions are the most exposed to the shift away from third-party into first party, advertising is by far at the top of that list. But once again, even if we go back to just the measurement side of things, the analytics and attribution getting more and more people into an authenticated state, not just measuring them anonymously through my Adobe analytics, what's on the page, you're going services potentially, but also getting them to log in to my mobile app, getting them to log in as a registered user, anytime they consume content, that's going to be a big part of the new currency going forward into this decade is how many people can I get to engage with me at a deeper, so I can track them at a known user level.

Chris Baird: (20:50)
And I know that's been a big initiative and we'll touch on this in our next topic, when we talk about some of the importance of, I guess Google has a new mobile web certification program, that's out. One of the things they call out is this a specific goal of improving user sign-in rates obviously to help with very relevant advertising and just better experience.

Cameron Cowan: (21:13)
Yeah. I saw that article as you shared it to me, I think that's spot on. We're going to have more and more people focused on wherever I can get better authentication rates to get good first party data and mobile apps are the very top of that list.

Chris Baird: (21:25)
Insights, right? It feels like when I sign onto a mobile site, it's a little bit more seamless than when I'm on a desktop, but that's just me. Anything else we want to call out in that research? We will link to that in this post and in the comments. But anything else we want to call out from that? I'm actually flipping through it right now just to see.

Cameron Cowan: (21:47)
I think in general, if you look at that slide on page eight of the report, we're looking at advertising, like I said, is far and away the market share. If you strip advertising off of that chart and then kind of normalize everything else up, you do see that measurement is the next highest one. There's a whole bunch of cookies that are specific to our own websites that don't exist anywhere else, and so that's more of custom implementation. But I was surprised to find that even functional and necessary cookies, things that are on the site that are required to make the site work and people can't opt out of, there's still a small subset of those that are also in the third-party context. So that's the one other thing that stuck out to me that we really want to review. If there's anything that is mandatory on your site, and is still in third-party, you got some quick work you need to do.

Mike Maziarz: (22:32)
And ObservePoint, over the last year from product team, we've been really working relentlessly with our cookie inventory and gathering that information for our users. So over the last year our report around cookies has grown tremendously. So getting that insight of what cookies are firing, are they first or third-party? What user persona or user state are they in when they're firing? We've done a lot of work on that this last year in our going to continue to do more so. Where the cookies being set? What are the technologies in relation to this cookie? So a lot of that we've been working on and we'll continue to work on to help our end users navigate this.

Cameron Cowan: (23:08)
I think that was a big takeaway of the report and the presentation that we did off the back of it was, what's the 'so what'? What do I do with this information? And big 'so what' is you need to understand now what's on your site. You need to get a clear inventory of, okay, do I have exposure? And if I have exposure in my closer to the three or four third-party cookies, or am I closer to the hundred plus cookies? So just being able to get that baseline, that's something that obviously ObservePoint can help with. I think the other thing, Mike you'd mentioned some of the recent enhancements in our reporting specifically, we've got this new distinction, so you've got first party cookies, and then you've got third-party cookies, but we've also got this new thing called owned third-party, what is owned third-party?

Mike Maziarz: (23:45)
We've been working on this quite a bit in the last six months or so. As this has become a pervasive problem and going through all the data, we have lots of data from different websites and we've realized that Firefox even Chrome, when we start doing this as well, but you have your first party cookies, but then there's something now called an own third-party. Which is a cookie being set on a subdomain of your site. So let's say you're CNN and you have a And there's a cookie being placed on money that and it's your own cookie. It's actually going to be a third-party. That'll look like a third-party to the browser. And so when you're thinking about how to optimize your site, and this is this going to be blocked or not working with the site, those will actually not be working. So we actually now identify those as owned third-party. So you can see that in reporting clearly and to make sure you get that move over to first-party as well.

Chris Baird: (24:35)
So just key takeaways from that report it's definitely worth looking over, but 450 third-party cookie domains were identified across the 300 sites. 81% of all sites are setting third-party cookies. 85% of all cookie domains were in relation to advertising, as we talked about. And then just under 10% of all cookie domains were related to experience and measurement. So cool insights, a lot of great data there. Again, thanks to DMPG the folks over there and Similarweb. We have actually, I think we did a webinar specifically just about this, so we can also link to if you'd rather watch instead of read. So very cool stuff. Anything to add there? Any final thoughts or no?

Cameron Cowan: (25:19)
Great research, and it's one of the things that I think we had observed point want to do more of is how do we get people out of more of the, like I said earlier, the hyperbole of everything's going away and getting to real data from real websites so we can actually provide those insights to guide you.

Chris Baird: (25:32)
Very cool. So lastly well actually second to last, we do want to share a few updates that we've made to the platform and Mike will walk through some of those updates. So, for those of you that are ObservePoint customers stay on for that. The last thing we want to talk about, I was doing a little bit research and stumbled upon a blog post, I think it was a blog post, on Google's blog about their mobile web certification. And I read through it and this really will bridge nicely into our conversation next week, where we talk about some of the how the pandemic has changed online behavior. We know everything has gone mobile, but even more so in 2020. But this article talks specifically about how the boosting of even, it says a meer 0.1 second decrease in site speed can, or yeah, it says decrease in site speed can boost conversion rates by 8%. And research is also showing that 72% of customers are more likely to be loyal to a brand if they offer a personalized mobile experience. And it also addresses the user sign signing rates, obviously helping marketers get richer data sets and make, create better experiences. So specific to mobile, I know that is there anything that you're hearing, Cameron, as far as mobile experience in how some of our customers are prioritizing that?

Cameron Cowan: (26:59)
I mean, I think not to dive in too much for the content for next, next time around, but mobile is one of those areas where we have a direct engaged audience. People have a dedicated space on their personal device that they keep on them at all time to engage with your brand. And we know that the number of people that judiciously clear off the other apps, they download it and they get rid of it is really high. So if you are one of those people that are lucky enough to get that dedicated space, you have an engaged audience, often they're highly authenticated. So you know who they are. It can be the most personalized experience, far more than a general website can be. And so delivering those awesome experiences is a huge opportunity, but there's also people that still haven't, mobile is still an afterthought for a lot of brands, is what we see. And being able to understand what's the engagement rate?

For us as a B2B SAS company, we don't really have mobile presence, and so it's not as big of a deal for us. For others, that is their business. In fact, I spent a lot of my career earlier in last decade, living overseas in the APAC region. And when I was looking at India and China, it wasn't just mobile first, it was mobile only. They would have a single webpage that would be 'Go download our app.' And that was the entire experience as wrapped up in that mobile. So I think that's one of the trends we're seeing. And I think as we talk next month on the same topic, we'll dive deeper into what that really means, especially in the world of pandemic and post pandemic engagement.

Chris Baird: (28:26)
It makes sense. And I thought this is interesting, this is Google's first certification for a skills-based certification as opposed to just product. So I wonder if we'll see other skills-based certifications that Google puts out. And I wonder if you know, someone like in Adobe will come up with a similar certification program.

Cameron Cowan: (28:43)
I think with the Google ecosystem, they know that they have to have a really great, rich partner ecosystem that can not only deploy the technology, but they can give the services, guidance that they need.

Chris Baird: (28:52)
Well, you're exactly right. They link to a bunch of agencies, a lot of our friends over there you know, we have a Merkle, Mindshare, Digitas, Blast. A lot of our partners are sitting over there waiting to help. So very cool. That's all I want to address on there. Mike, let's turn the time over to you. Let's see if you have anything to update just around experience governance, data governance anything that we're working on over on the product side.

Mike Maziarz: (29:17)
So if you have not been in ObservePoint recently you will probably not recognize it. We have overhauled the platform over the last year, that's kind of what we did. What did you do during the pandemic? We decided to overhaul the platform. That's not just some new lipstick. It was from back end to front end. We redid our whole backend and redid our whole front end in the last year. Which has really allowed for us, and it's really just starting the foundation of what's to come with ObservePoint. But with that, you'll see a whole new UI and all new reporting. So with this reporting, it allows you to get insights like you never could before. Not just from one report, but cross reporting. We've now introduced a robust filtering system, which allows you to say, 'Hey, I want to look at this technology and with these certain pages,' and get that insight right away. That is what we've been doing over the last little while. So all of our reporting is new for Technology Governance.

And then this last year we've launched a Privacy Compliance when we had our first iteration of that late fall last year. And we've been busy meeting with customers and prospects over that time, getting feedback on our first iteration. And we're now about to launch our second iteration of that here next month in August. So super excited for that. So it's going to feature all of our new reportings, if you like our reporting and then use it for so far, it's going to be just more of that. And then it's also a whole new setup process as well. We've completely refined it to make it easier to get into the product and give value. Introducing like bulk uploads and making it easy to transition data from your CMP, your consent management platform, and get that right into ObservePoint for validation to make sure that your end users are actually getting the experience that they think they're getting, and that way you're not liable. So that is what we've been doing. Very, very busy. If you're a customer and you haven't been in awhile, please log in and meet with your reps at ObservePoint to check it out, or we'd be happy to meet with you as well. Or if you've done a demo with us in the past and want to check us out now, it'll look completely different and a lot more value's been added as well.

Cameron Cowan: (31:29)
I think what I like best about what the product team has done with the new UI, Mike, is that we're getting a lot closer to not just, 'Hey, you, you've got a problem, go figure out where it is and what to do about it.' To being able to ask the next question, interrogating the data, say, here's a problem, let me ask the next question, where is it? Okay, now let me ask the next question, how exactly is that happening? And then you're that much closer to resolving the issue rather than just saying, oh, good luck. Go, go find that problem that we detected.

Mike Maziarz: (31:55)
Yes, and going through that process with only one or two clicks, as opposed to six or seven clicks as well.

Cameron Cowan: (32:00)
Great job.

Chris Baird: (32:02)
Well, we are at time, so that was 32 minutes. We just rolled through that. So nice work. We have the results in from the poll 51% prefer live, 48%, somehow we're missing a percent there.

Cameron Cowan: (32:17)
So of the people that are listening to it live still half of them don't want to be listening to it live. Is that what I'm hearing?

Chris Baird: (32:22)
I think they would prefer to be on-demand because they want to listen to it quicker. We did see a few comments about there being a bit choppy audio. So that could be some in an internal internet issue. We will figure that out and we will correct that next time. So anyway, with that I think that we'll wrap up our show today. Thank you, Cameron. Thank you, Mike. And we will send this out on-demand, and if there's nothing else to say, we'll wrap up here. Thanks guys. Appreciate it. Thanks all.

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