DataChat LIVE! Episode 3

Episode 3: New GA4, Changes in Digital Experience, Industry Updates, & More!

Including:

  • Ways in which the current pandemic has changed online behavior and digital experience
  • Transitioning from older platforms to the new GA 4 and why you should consider it
  • How top retailers implement Adobe Analytics
  • And more!

Krista Seiden is the principal digital analytics consultant with KS Digital, an analytics consultancy she founded in 2019, helping businesses make the most of their investments in digital marketing and analytics. Previously, Krista was VP, Product Marketing & Growth at Quantcast. Prior to that, she was at Google for nearly 7 years, where she led Product Management efforts across the Google Marketing Platform and served as the external evangelist for the Google Analytics suite of products. Krista is a keynote speaker, practitioner, writer on Analytics and Optimization, and passionate supporter of #WomenInAnalytics.

Podcast References:

KS Digital Academy - Learn GA4! Get $100 off any GA4 course with code: GA4100
KS Digital Youtube channel - Quick Tips for GA4
Kristen's Blog - loads of GA4 content
GA3 vs GA4 side by side Comparison Guide
Follow Krista on Twitter

How 5 Top Retailers Implement Adobe Analytics

Follow DataChat Live! on podcast channels: SpotifyStitcher, and Buzzsprout.


Chris Baird: (00:08)
Welcome to our third episode of DataChat Live! I'm Chris Baird. I'm here with Cameron Cowan and Krista Seiden. And we are excited to talk about a couple of topics today. So, a first an introduction for Krista, I'll let you just briefly introduce yourself, but we've known each other for a few years now. You've been an advocate of ours, and been to a couple of our events before, but Krista, why don't you introduce yourself for our audience?

Krista Seiden: (00:39)
Hi everyone. I'm Krista Seiden. Thanks so much for having me here today. So, I've been in the digital analytics space for a very long time. I was at Adobe, a few other places. I spent almost seven years at Google working on Google Analytics 4 a lot of that time. I was the evangelist for Google Analytics, product manager on Google Analytics and Google Analytics 4, in particular. And now I actually have my own consulting business called KS Digital, where I help clients to really strategize and implement Google Analytics.

Chris Baird: (01:10)
Well said. Yeah, Krista, it's good to see you. So how was everyone's weekend? I know it's Tuesday, we're recording on a Tuesday, but Cameron, did you do anything fun?

Cameron Cowan: (01:20)
I mean, weekends for me is it's all about nephews and playing football. They're out there, and I got one that's been playing quarterback for like four years. So love watching him slinging the ball. Another one that's just a big hefty lineman. So that's what I do with my weekends. That's great.

Chris Baird: (01:33)
Krista, anything fun?

Krista Seiden: (01:36)
Yeah, we did a couple of nice little outings with our family, I have a little nine month old daughter, so it's always fun to kind of take her out. We were listening to some live music on Sunday and she's just so interested in involved with it.

Chris Baird: (01:48)
Oh, that's great. I was in actually Oregon for the weekend. They almost canceled the Hood to Coast Relay race. But met a couple of friends up there, and I thought they did a great job of executing a race. They spaced everyone out for, you know, 36 hours on the start time, it felt like. But it was a really fun time if anyone is a big runner or just like to do hard things that you're not quite in shape for, the Hood to Coast is great. Did it with a bunch of friends that I grew up with, so I've had a great time.

Chris Baird: (02:19)
Let's jump into a couple of our topics, before we get into some of our main topics did anyone see the news yesterday? Google paying Apple $15 billion in 2022 to be their default search algorithm, default search engine, sorry. I looked up what they're paying this year, $8 billion. So I just thought that was shocking. And I started, of course, wondering what their total revenue was and how much this is going to influence it. But I've got to think in the back of my mind, Apple, someday is going to be competing with Google on the search engine front. It's just too lucrative of a way to grow and influence. I know Google has obviously a massive head-start, but Cameron, Krista, did you guys have any thoughts on that?

Cameron Cowan: (03:02)
Apple's obviously got enough data that they could probably put something together. They've got the technology know-how, they're also really big right now on their whole positioning around privacy. And I gotta imagine they don't believe Google is doing it right. So they're learning what they can, and figure out if they could it better.

Krista Seiden: (03:18)
I think it's interesting. Google's clearly trying to keep that role here, front and center on everyone's minds and they're paying a lot of money for it.

Chris Baird: (03:28)
Still, 80% of their their total revenue is from ads, so that's obviously a key.

Cameron Cowan: (03:33)
You can imagine, if they think that's worth $15 billion, then something's working for them. And we should be thinking about that as, I go back to the power of the default. Like the whole reason they're doing that is just to make it the default search engine. You can still go in Safari and search for bing.com or yahoo.com or whatever you want to do, but the power of just that behavior, just having it be the default that's worth a lot of money.

Chris Baird: (03:55)
Because most people don't end up changing that. Just a quick highlight next week, we're going to talk about a few different topics. One of which is some of the new legislation and laws that are coming out in China with technology firms. So we won't get into that today, but we will address that and how it affects you know, our jobs and how it affects the work of a lot of our customers.

Chris Baird: (04:16)
Let's go ahead and jump in. So, one of the things we're talking about today, and the reason we wanted Krista to join this conversation, is she works with enterprises all day, every day for the last several years, implementing Google Analytics and analytics platforms. So we wanted to talk about the transitioning from the older version of Google into GA4. So I thought there's very few people that would be better, and more prepared to talk about this than Krista. So I know Cameron's got some thoughts on that, but Krista, talk to us about how your customers are actually adopting GA4 and what some of their challenges and concerns are, just at a high level.

Krista Seiden: (04:58)
Yeah, absolutely. So just to level set with everyone, GA4, Google Analytics 4 is Google's newest property type in Google Analytics. They're defining this really as a new "property" because they want this all to be considered one product still with Google Analytics. I think many users are kind of seeing it as two different types of tools really, because the data models of the tools are very different. So if you looked at GA4 at all, you'll know that it is very different than its data schema, the data schema itself is based on events and parameters, much more similar to maybe some of the product analytics tools that you guys may have heard of or used such as Amplitude, Heap, Mixpanel, those types of things. Whereas GA3, which is kind of a new name that Google has started calling Universal Analytics or the current regular version of Google Analytics is really still that kind of old-school, page view sessions based tool that we have known and loved for many, many years.

Krista Seiden: (06:00)
And so when it comes to kind of reconciling this and looking at the differences, a lot of people are questioning, how do I transition? How do I go from GA3? This thing that I know inside and out to something that is fundamentally different and not just in the look and feel. It looks different, the reports are organized different, there's different reports, but the data itself is different, and it doesn't always match up with the current data that I have. So I think that's the real question, and that's the thing that a lot of people are thinking about right now, and what we're here to talk about. But I think the good news is, is that you still have time to think about this transition. And you know, what we want to talk about, I think today is how you can be successful in that transition. And one of the things first and foremost, that I would recommend is if you're not already using Google Analytics 4, and a lot of people are not yet, that you actually go ahead and set it up side by side with your current Google Analytics implementation so that you can start to get familiar with that data, get familiar with the look and feel of the new interface, with some of the new reports, and various features that are available, and most importantly, get familiar with that new data schema.

Chris Baird: (07:10)
Yeah. So that's what you're seeing most of your clients do then is want to set it up side by side.

Krista Seiden: (07:16)
Yep, definitely. That's, that's the recommendation from myself. I have somebody who is helping customers implement, but also the recommendation from Google. Since about October of last year, when they kind of pulled GA4, into the spotlight they made it the default property within Google Analytics and they said, "Hey, you should really start to implement this side by side now so that you can get familiar with what is going on."

Chris Baird: (07:38)
What industries are adopting it the quickest, and prioritizing that. Are you seeing trends there with specific industries?

Krista Seiden: (07:45)
I would say industries, it's kind of all over the board, but in terms of who is really ready and who's not quite ready, I would say if you're an e-commerce customers specifically, GA4 is still lacking some of those main features that are really important. Most specifically, Product Scope Dimensions, which is what they were called in Universal Analytics, in Google Analytics 4 they'll be Items Scoped, since the product dimension has been renamed to items very specific to e-commerce here. But if you're an e-commerce customer, I would say still, it's important to set that up and start collecting data. But some of the features that you really rely on for that e-commerce data are not going to be available yet. You'll need to continue to tweak that implementation going forward.

Krista Seiden: (08:37)
Other industries though other industries might be more ready. So if you are a brand new website or app and you don't rely on e-commerce, it might be a great time to go ahead and just dive in with GA4 because GA3 has a limited shelf life. So if you're setting up something new from scratch, it may not be worth setting up both. If you are comfortable with a little bit of uncertainty and a little bit of change, that GA4 is still seen. And so that might be a good opportunity to just go for it. GA4 is the future, Google's been very clear about that, and I think we'll see that continuing to grow in terms of the messaging and the features and availability of what GA4 has to offer over the next several months and next year. And so, if you have the stomach for it, I would say go for it.

Krista Seiden: (09:21)
But really in particularly I'd say the people that I've seen jumping the fastest are people that are both app and web customers. So GA4 was actually previously called Google Analytics App + Web. It was a beta version, and they moved it out of beta and changed the name to GA4. But what that really signifies is that this platform is the same, or the data model is the same from both app to web. And that's using that Firebase SDK, which kind of feeds back to the acquisition of Firebase and Google Analytics for Firebase as a product, which transitioned into or became actually the base of Google Analytics 4, once they expanded that out to the web platform. So the first people I'm really seeing adopting especially, are those app users who have web as well, because they've been familiar with it already on the Google Analytics for Firebase side, and they're ready to add on and have that same data model across app and web.

Chris Baird: (10:15)
Is this something where your clients are coming proactively to you and initiating the conversation, or are you typically initiating it with their teams?

Krista Seiden: (10:25)
That's a great question. You know, I would say that it really depends on the client and how long that relationship has been, or how long I've been working with that client. So some of my more established clients, especially the bigger enterprises who are GA 360 customers on Universal Analytics. Usually that's a conversation that develops and evolves and I'll say, "Hey, it might be time that we start looking into GA4, let's go ahead and just get it set up to run side by side so we can start collecting historical data." All of us knowing that GA3 or Universal Analytics is still going to be the main reporting platform for some time. Other clients, especially newer clients are actually coming to me and asking for complete solution design and strategy around GA4 and help getting that set up and implemented. And I even have clients that are still coming to me today that are looking for getting GA3 in GA4 set up side-by-side because they may be e-commerce clients or, you know, maybe they already have a GA3 implementation, and they want to just make sure that is really ready and set to still collect solid data for them, but get ready for the future by importing in GA4 side by side.

Cameron Cowan: (11:30)
You mentioned side-by-side, obviously that gives the folks implementing a good baseline of data, how long do you either recommend or foresee customers doing that in parallel before they end up turning off GA3?

Krista Seiden: (11:44)
It's really going to be up to the customer in terms of how long they want to run it side by side. I think there's a minimal impact in terms of site speed, and various things in that extra code. So I don't see a big downside turning it side by side, other than you have to actually maintain two analytics platforms, which I think we all know is not a trivial task. But I think for the majority of my customers and especially larger enterprise customers who have been so reliant on GA3 for a very long time, I suspect that they'll be running GA3 right up until Google decides to sunset that product, while continuously making GA4 implementations better and better and better so that they are ready for that point in time.

Chris Baird: (12:24)
There's been no timeline given for that, right, the sunsetting I'm guessing?

Krista Seiden: (12:28)
There's been no public timeline.

Cameron Cowan: (12:29)
Public? Ok.

Cameron Cowan: (12:33)
I think you're in a really interesting position, Krista, to where you not only help get to build it, but now you get to use what you built. As far as encouraging people to make the switch either parallel or wholesale. And what are the one or two features or functionality or capabilities of GA4 that you think are the most compelling reason to make that shift?

Krista Seiden: (12:53)
I think there are several, actually. A couple that I personally had the opportunity to work on that I find really exciting are the new features within a section of GF4 called Explore. This was previously called Analysis, if anyone's familiar with that, but it's this new section it's actually very similar to what you might see in Adobe Workspace, where you have this kind of drag and drop functionality, and this kind of whiteboard place where you can just kind of put whatever you want in there. And it's formatted so that you kind of have that whiteboard, but then you also have various templates that you can start to work with. And a couple of those templates are Padding and Funnels, which in particular are really, really advanced functionality over what you have available in Google Analytics. Some of that, Funnels for example, was available to GA360 users in GA3, but it's now available to everyone in GA4, with some expanded functionality on top of that. So it adds in things like close funnel analysis, additional funnel stats, things like that. The Padding report in particular is really cool. You can kind of click through and expand in a little thank-you diagram, looking at kind of visual all the way through the different customer touch points. And I think there's a lot of ability there to really dig in in areas that wasn't previously possible. There's several other new reports in that Explore section as well, around customer lifetime value, and segment overlap, and different things that are great visuals and new ways of exploring that data, that didn't exist in GA3.

Krista Seiden: (14:26)
And I think one other, I'm going to say two other really cool features of GA4, the first is this thing called Enhanced Measurement. And what this is, is that out of the box, you can toggle on, just in the admin interface, a couple of switches to start collecting more data. You can all of a sudden out of the box just with a little toggle collect things like scroll tracking, and outbound link tracking, and video tracking and things like that wasn't previously available in GA3, you would have had to implement these things on your own, either in the code or in Google Tag Manager and for a lot of customers, especially longer tail customers, smaller businesses, that was the overhead that they just didn't have the time or resources to do. And so I really love that there's these new features in GA4 that are helping to really democratize data across businesses and especially smaller businesses.

Krista Seiden: (15:29)
And then the other thing that I love about GA4 that is not available in GA3 is that the free product of GA4 has a free export to BigQuery, and this is huge for a lot of users. And that means that you can get all of your raw click event data, or all of your raw data, exported to BigQuery where you can add other data to it, apply advanced modeling, kind of anything that you want in that data warehouse setup. And so I think this is really, really important and key, because this is something that you previously had to pay for in GA3 with Google Analytics 360, and is very front and center in terms of where the analytics industry is going, having access to that raw data stream.

Cameron Cowan: (15:59)
That's great, and I'm actually going to ask you to do something, to pit your resume against itself. You worked actually at the same time as Chris and I over at Adobe for a while, then you were at Google for a number of years, as you see both of those platforms on the analytics side progressing, where do you think they are comparatively? Are they kind of even, and just have specialties? Are there specific industries that one is better for than another? How do you kind of see those here in 2021?

Krista Seiden: (16:23)
You know, this is kind of the age old question, Adobe or Google Analytics. I think they both have their strong points. They definitely both have areas where they're stronger than the other and both have areas where they're weaker than the other. One of the things I love about Google Analytics is it's generally easier to start using and easier to learn. There's a ton of resources out there for it to be able to learn for free or through paid courses. On the Adobe side, it's a little bit more limited in terms of the ability to really dig in and play with data sets and get hands-on, unless you're at a big client that has Adobe, and then the learning curve is often a little bit sharper. So that's one of the things I think Google does really well. I think Adobe does a great job at creating an ecosystem to work within and having really, really loving clients, people who are Adobe fans are Adobe fans, and there is no convincing them otherwise. But they both have their strong points. Career wise or industry wise, sometimes you hear, especially e-commerce retailers who will say that they have to have their merchandising eVARs in Adobe. I think Google is really working to make e-commerce better in GA4, GA3 had enhanced e-commerce, which was a pretty good solution. I think the differentiating point on Google there, and really across industries is that if you are advertising full stack with Google, it makes a lot of sense to have Google Analytics, especially Google Analytics, 360 for GA3, where you have integrations with all of the ad stack natively to share your audiences and your goals and things like that. So I think that's a big one up on the Google side, but that doesn't mean that they necessarily have to be used exclusively. I've had a ton of clients that use them side by side.

Chris Baird: (18:17)
I have a question as we kind of transition to our next topic. Before we do, we know that the Adobe summit is in March and or April next year, spring of next year? Does Google have like a community event, like an Adobe summit? I know that there's been some talk about, actually a few partners of ours, we've talked about putting a digital event on that specific to Google Analytics, it's more like a summit or a conference. Where would you recommend people look at outside of just the blog for like a community resource?

Krista Seiden: (18:55)
Yeah. so Adobe summit is one of my favorite events of the year. It is always a ton of fun, and a ton of learning. I do wish Google had something big like this. They do have a summit usually yearly, not last year and this year due to COVID. But that summit is generally restricted to just their partners who are helping to sell Google Analytics. In the past they invited some 360 clients, but generally it's really just that partner ecosystem. And besides that, there are a lot of other third-party events that are available that focus on not just Google Analytics, but digital analytics as a whole. But I do think that there is more opportunity for Google specific events out there, especially in the US where I do think that there there's a little bit of a gap there.

Chris Baird: (19:42)
I've I felt that, and I know that there's appetite there for those events, whether they be just digital or virtual and also in person when we go back. So, let's change gears a little bit. Let's talk about, I've seen a lot of articles over the past two months that have talked about how the current pandemic has changed online behavior and digital experience. So I just wanted to open that up and just see if either of you have noticed anything that sticks out that, what are we leaving behind? How has the pandemic changed online behavior and digital experience in general? I don't know if you have any thoughts on that Cameron or Krista.

Krista Seiden: (20:26)
I can share what I've seen from my business perspective and, what I feel is going on in the industry. I think that there has been a, a big rush to be online. Then people couldn't go into physical stores for a long time, and they're still very hesitant to, in some cases. Being online, having your inventory, your product, your brand focused online has become really, really important. I think, on my business side of things and a lot of other businesses in the same area, I think we all saw quite a lull last year when the pandemic started. Q2 Q3 Q4 last year were pretty quiet. I think coming into this year, though especially with the longevity that we've seen from this pandemic, people are deciding that it is time to invest in online and they really need to make their online presence very, very solid in terms of both their user interface, but also their tracking to make sure that they have the data that they need to be able to improve and continue to optimize that user experience. So in that respect, I've seen very much of an uptick in terms of people's activity online in the analytics space when it comes to what is going on commercially right now.

Cameron Cowan: (21:41)
I think I've seen the same thing. It's almost like a roller coaster ride when you hit that very first drop, everybody just clenches, and that's what we were all collectively doing in the beginning, or middle of last year. As soon as the pandemic hit, everybody's like, we don't know how long this is going to last. We don't know what the impact is going to be, so let's just clench. We're going to not invest more in our marketing tech stack, use what we have. But I think during that period of time, all of a sudden there was this massive buildup of additional data we never saw before drastically increased online traffic and engagement and conversion metrics. And then all of a sudden, once we got past that initial clench, it was like, okay, this is, this is going to go on for a while. And even after, whenever we get over the pandemic, whatever "getting over" looks like, we still need to create these hybrid experiences. It can't just be physical, it really can't just be digital, it's gotta be a mixture of both. And so I think as we've rolled into 2021, and now we're halfway through the year, we can see that people are really starting to make those investments. So there's no longer holding those purse strings and trying to figure out, how long do I have to clench down, it's now where do I need to make those strategic investments so I can use all of that amazing data I've got over the last year, year and a half and make use of that resource?

Chris Baird: (22:45)
Something I've noticed over the beginning of 2020 through even today, I'm a big Nike shopper, not only being from Oregon, but I love their clothes, love their style. I don't think their design game has ever been better. It's just awesome. And I've noticed that they've changed a little bit of their model, at least the that's what I've noticed. They have an amazing app experience now. I mean, it is phenomenal if you don't have the Nike app, you should download their shopping app, actually, not their fitness app. It's an incredible experience. I mean the way that they have their story feed of products and you can drill in. But the other interesting thing is you can definitely tell after going into Nike stores this past week in Portland, and then also you know, we have some Nike factory stores, which don't have anywhere near the same quality of goods, but they have, I would guess, and say 92% of all of their products are on their app or their website. And they've actually started to have app-specific and app-only products. So you can only buy when you're logged into the app. And then I think one more tier is member products. So anyone can become a member, but I love what they're doing, pushing everyone towards an optimized experience where their acquisition cost is low. They don't have to advertise, you can do push notifications and you can build out your favorites, and if you want inspiration I would say go download the Nike app and see how you can mimic that experience, because it's truly an addictive experience when you're on the app and you're adding things and you're favoriting items. They've invested quite a bit in the photography and the overall layout of their models and and their clothing, but just an incredible experience. And I think Nike's transition to digital was accelerated in 2020, and it is at the top of its game.

Cameron Cowan: (24:42)
We've discussed this previously the whole move away from third-party data has kind of shook everybody up over the last year and a half, two years. And the more you drive people, not only toward digital experiences, but toward these owned, authenticated logged in experiences. And that's what Nike is offering is the ability to say, "You know what? I know you, I'm building a relationship with you, and it's okay for you to give me more information, more data about yourself, because I'm going to, in a value exchange, give you a better experience, more personalized, more offers." And I think you're just going to see more and more of that. But the people that really get it in digital are going to create those first party authenticated experiences to make up for everything that they're losing in that third party ecosystem. That's slowly going away.

Chris Baird: (25:23)
That's a good point. That's probably a good summarized takeaway from my soap box was try to create a personal experience for your users. Even down to the shoe size, being defaulted to my shoe size, which they do. I mean, it's just incredible. So anyway, I don't know if anyone's as excited about Nike as I am, but their experience is great.

Cameron Cowan: (25:43)
Well, just one quick question to you, Krista, as you engage with the customers you consult with, how are you seeing them deal with not only that transition to digital, but more specifically to first-party digital authenticated experiences?

Krista Seiden: (25:57)
I think it's a lot of what you were just saying. There is a push to have kind of this owned experience where people are logged in and authenticated, and you can make that more personal because people are very nervous about third-party cookies and the data that we are losing there. And so I think if you can, I'd go into that logged-in experience and have that real relationship with your customer. It's going to be better long-term.

Chris Baird: (26:24)
Let's transition to our last final topic here. I know Cameron is very opinionated on this and the pre-game show. You had some thoughts, but recently we did a study on how top five top retailers implemented Adobe analytics. It's a blog post that we'll share here. And I wanted to talk a little bit about that. So, Cameron, what are your what are your thoughts? And we'll link to that. But we highlighted basically CVS, Costco, Lowe's, Verizon, and Walgreens. And we talked about their implementation of Adobe analytics.

Cameron Cowan: (26:59)
Well, and obviously we've called out these pillar metrics of digital marketing and analytics. Called out average cost per visitor, traffic volume conversion rate, average order value before I get on my soap box. So this will help me know when you guys are gonna cut me up. I want to throw it to Krista and say, as you've seen people implement specifically for for retail, for e-commerce, what are some of the key pillars that you're seeing with the customers you're dealing with?

Krista Seiden: (27:28)
In terms of what they're really looking for, I think it's probably very similar to what customers of Adobe Analytics are looking for. They want to know how much it costs to acquire a customer, how long they're able to retain that customer, the size, the value, and how they can encourage repeat customers. That's kind of the end of the day, what a lot of e-commerce businesses are looking for. And then I think when you dig in a little bit more granularly, it's how much information about that particular user can we understand? And can we customize this experience and kind of like what Chris was saying, start to make personal recommendations so that we can make that one-to-one user experience much better and encourage higher order value and more repeat business.

Cameron Cowan: (28:11)
I'll try to be as succinct as I can be. But when I look at this, there's two things that stick out to me. One, I get really frustrated when people just talk about conversion rate, because like conversion rate is one step here. When you get to the website and the one step here, when ever you do what I want you to do. Yeah. But that's really just a whole bunch of micro conversion rates. Like the very first conversion rate is once you get to the site, did you leave or not like, what was your bounce rate? And were you sticking, did you engage. And so I think a lot of people need to be looking at conversion rate and all of its components, all each of those steps down the funnel. And we ended up getting to this end conversion, and that's not really our goal as a business. We don't want to get a conversion. We want to get converts. We want to get people to come back to us again and again and again, and building that lifetime value. So I think looking at conversion rate, I think almost it's done too much in the retail space, that we need to be looking at a much longer time horizon, and how we engage, how do we build those personalized, sticky experiences so that when you log into the app and your shoe size, instead of the default, that makes you want to come back and purchase again and get them with Nike, for example.

Cameron Cowan: (29:11)
The other one that I get really frustrated, and this product goes back to my education. I have a degree in finance and I get frustrated with people just to look at average order value or top line revenue. Like when are we gonna start hitting at profitability? Like when are you going to get below the top line metrics all the way to the bottom? And so the more people can start incorporating in information about the margin, about the profitability of individual product lines, about repeat purchase profitability, I think there's a lot of room for marketing to get better at speaking the language of finance and accounting. And as we go from just being top-line marketers to being truly bottom line and over the course of the lifetime value of a customer, that's really where the biggest competitive advantages is how you can dial into those bottom line metrics.

Chris Baird: (29:52)
And you see, even brick and mortar stores take into account profitability when they're building displays, their end caps, and their product placement. I mean, they're thinking profitability when they lay out a store. And so I think when we look at our digital source or digital experiences, well, if you're a retailer, we should be thinking that too.

Cameron Cowan: (30:09)
Absolutely.

Chris Baird: (30:11)
And to wrap up, I'll Just say this, I think that it's important for us as digital marketers to audit our experience. And I'm not talking about auditing data or analytics, I'm talking about the actual experience. And so as you, as you, as we talk about how our data's being collected, I think it's also important to have a qualitative lens on the experience of checking out, and making sure whether it's submitting a form or filling out a credit card application, whatever it is, it's important for us to regularly involve ourselves in the experience. So we know and don't get too disconnected from some of the challenges that we face on the front of the experience.

Cameron Cowan: (30:47)
Yeah. I think it's far too easy to just think of ourselves as marketers or data professionals. We're all consumers as well. Every one of us has our own experience on the other side of that screen. And so spend some time on your website and actually be a consumer. Don't just be the marketer or the analyst.

Chris Baird: (31:02)
Love it. Well, Krista, thank you so much for joining us. We we could not have done that segment without you. We really appreciate your expertise and we look forward to having you back, we look forward to seeing you in person. But any final parting thoughts Krista

Krista Seiden: (31:20)
Thank you so much for having me. I'd just throw in, if you're looking for help transitioning to GA4, KS Digital is here to help. We have some courses to help teach you GA4, so you can get up to speed, and I would love to talk to anyone about how you can expect to make this transition.

Cameron Cowan: (31:39)
Krista, if people want to find you online, where can they find you?

Krista Seiden: (31:40)
I'm on twitter @kristaseiden, at ksdigital.co is our website for the business. And you can reach out to me in either of those places.

Chris Baird: (31:52)
Well, thank you so much. Well that will that will do it for our third episode here. We'll be talking about a few different hot topics next time. Probably in the next couple days, maybe two weeks. But until then thank you for joining us.

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